From: military-radio-guy Full-Name: Dennis R Starks To: military radio collectors#3 Fcc: Sent Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:48:15 Subject: MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, Sept.16/99 Message-ID: <19990916.054710.10119.11.military-radio-guy@juno.com> X-Status: Sent X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 MILITARY COLLECTOR GROUP POST, Sept.16/99 Index: ANNOUNCEMENTS; MEMBERS WRITE; More GRC-14, Icom Military HT, Nicad Versus Dry Cell? GRC-13? PRC-127? NASA/PRC-112? NEW MEMBERS; Rudolf Salomon, Brian Jeffrey VE3UU Randy Stegemeyer W7HR, HUMOR; *********************************************** ANNOUNCEMENTS; Inverter power supply project is a bust! I'm very sorry to have gotten your hopes up, but recent, and complicated developments have given me reason to not risk your funds(well over $6000). Rather than elaborate on a very complicated issue, suffice to say, I don't think the supplier is yet ready for business on this scale, and very minor bugs in the design of some of the inverter types have only now been ironed out. This when combined with the fact that there is no warranty on these units, and their "Potted" construction which rules out the possibility of repair, give me cause to pass on them for the time being. While I do believe that the product is a quality one offering a viable, and cost efficient alternative for operation of our old radios, I cannot in good conscience indorse this project under the current conditions. I've not been in town much over the last couple weeks, and I'll be leaving again before sun-up tomorrow. Ike, myself, and friend, will be headed for Peoria Ill. for three days of fun in the Sun(hopefully) hamfestin. Hope to see some of you there. Dennis *********************************************** MEMBERS WRITE; More GRC-14, Dennis, Jim & Group- As to the rareness of the Marine Corps GRC stuff, her's some local history as related to me by those involved. Sometime in the mid 70's(?) A group of Civil Air Patrol and Coast Guard Auxilliary guys got together and rented a semi or two and went off to the Gulf Coast, (maybe Albany Ga?) to get a load of misc radio gear to set up their own nets. Among the booty were 500 GRC-14 sets. Each set used 2 receivers and one fellow here in the New Orleans area still has his set with #s 1 & 1000 rcvrs! Apparently these were never actually put in any service as they were all in original packaging. No mount kits were available, and few armored cable sets. Most of these sets were never used, many were junked or given to trade schools (junked.) Most of the guys kept the receivers and some found there way to Fair Radio. One guy who used to run his set fabbed a long set of cable to get the dynamotor outside as it was too noisy to opperate next to it. This was their theory as to why the sets were abandonded. I've been trying to get more info on these as I'm putting the whole MRC-55 package together. If, by some slim chance, anyone has seen a mount kit, (or parts,) or the accessories box CY-2134/GRC-14 (9 1/4 x 7 5/8 x 11 9/16 with a cross knob locking lid ) or any other info on these please advise! I also need a strange antenna mount for this rig. It may have been Navy only; it hangs off the rear corner of the jeep and isn't numbered like an MP-50. Wes --the transmitter is DSB/AM/CW and *very heavy*. The receiver uses a moving film strip type display but the tuning rate is very poor on the high bands as you would expect from the coverage, 2-4, 4-8, 8-16, 16-32 mc/s. I have seen people oohing and awing over it at hamfests but it's not really that difficult for anyone with a modicum of radio knowledge to recognize it's no prizewinner. From comments from people who have owned part or all of the set, it is vastly inferior to the T-195/R-392, both transmitter and receiver. The main downfalls are the greater weight and instability. The overall impression is older technology and construction. Hue ------------------------------------------------------------------ Icom Military HT, Nicad Versus Dry Cell? Great stuff on the SEM and other backpack radios! Is anyone familiar with the Icom Soldierphone? I saw an announcement about a year ago that Icom has secured a contract to supply US forces with 35K handhelds (looked like their F30 model). A note on alkaline batteries: Many manufacturers supply alkaline packs with more voltage than the interchangeable nicad versions. For many Motorola radios the usual 15V pack is made into 18V. I assume this is to compensate for voltage drop during transmit. Ken Sakamoto ed) I've seen the same material that you have, and some time back was sent an offer to buy dealer samples of these radios. I later saw them being advertised in full page adds via "Shotgun News". As to the validity of the story, I don't know, but I'd really hate to learn that it's true. The voltage variation between dry cell battery packs, and nicad types is more a product of cell voltage differences rather than key down current requirements(1.2v nicads/1.5v dry cells). Hence a 10 cell nicad pack would produce a nominal 12v, while the same in dry cell would be 15. While it's true that a couple of cells could be left out of the dry cell pack to compensate for this(as was often done in the early days), the different(more linear) discharge curve of the dry cell would render them useless at about half it's life. ------------------------------------------------------------------ GRC-13? Dennis, Do you have any docs for the GRC-13? 73 Joseph W Pinner + Kingston, TN KC5IJD / NNN0PHR EMail: kc5ijd@sprintmail.com ed) I don't have squat by way of material on the GRC-13 other than what is included in TM11-487 1964. The same information you have available via your copy of the same set. I do have the gas powered generator for a 13, PU-158. It is smaller than any other of it's type I have seen. Housed in a little metal, water tight transit case that's a little larger than a bread box, and painted black crinkle. The generator too is black and provides 1.5, 90,& 500vdc. An MFP date of 1950 on this generator raises the question, why had this set not been included in the TM11-487 series prior to 1964(1950 & 1958)? While it might have been too new for inclusion in the 1950 publication, it certainly wasn't for the 1958 issue. ----------------------------------------------------------------- PRC-127? Hi Dennis, I recently got interested in the PRC-127 and PRC-127a radios. It seems that my local Virginia Nation Guard units (Army and Air), and the Virgini a Defense Force are switching over to these radios, from their PRC-68's. They operate in the 136-160 MHz range. From what I have read, nationwide, a number of groups and agenices are currently purchasing this model radio. I have dug-up a good bit of data on these units, and was wondering I should do a brief write-up (description, spec's, etc.) for the MCGP list? Please advise. Have a good weekend, Mark A. Cobbeldick, KB4CVN ed) Sure write us up anything you have time for. A couple years ago, Bendix King(the original producer of the PRC-127) sold out it's land mobile production to Relm. We suspect that the only reason Relm made this move was to get it's foot in the door for government sales(Relm having a very spotty reputation for quality, and business stability). In any case, all those engineers that had developed the PRC-127 were either fired, or walked out(along with most of the original Bendix staff). At the same time, as part of the purchase contract, radios in the original Bendix product line could no longer be marked Bendix King, but only the letters BK were allowed. In close concert with the Relm buy out, PRC-127's began to show up on the market. I suspect the reasoning behind this was two fold. First, Desert Storm had taken place not long before this, as the size of a PRC-127 was such that it was easily smuggled home in a duffle bag, we suspect many appeared via this less than honorable means. Second, both the 127, and it's commercial twin(which had also been extensively used by the military) began to show up in quantity via normal surplus channels. This was possibly the result of the Relm buy out, and the government in-turn running scared as they did when Sunair went under. After the Relm by-out, we didn't hear much about the military and the 127, nor have any "BK" marked examples been encountered. Neither have any "A" models been seen, nor the difference known. But, recent Janes issues still list the radio in use and production by several firms, in several countries, in several forms. It is possible that after the government's initial panic, they regained their composure and resumed purchases. Below follows the known data on the set as published in "Military Radio Equipment, Vol.I, PRC Designated Types," by Me. For more information see also: MCGP Backmail #46, OFF THE SHELF PRICK's; PART VI, PRC-127,& 129, PRC-127/RT-1594;Handheld VHF,FM transceiver.This equipment is a slightly modified Bendix King commercial business band radio.These modific- ations include a 2.5 watt RF output vice 5 watts,and the omission of the scan switch.Though it was most likely intended for various security uses,it is known to have been used in a tactical role in recent Desert Storm activities. Features include,14 preset channels,front panel key pad for entry of channel frequencies,LCD display(a sliding/removeable door protects the key pad & LCD display when not in use),optional scan & call guard tone squelch,& clone capabilities(some PRC-127's are provided without the key pad). Ops on any of 14 preset channels 136-160mc.RF power output is rated 2.5 watts.Requires 12vdc as supplied by either rechargeable nicad battery packs(two ea provided),or a battery box containing 8ea "AA" alkaline batteries.Size 7.8 x 2.5 x 1.52",1.5lbs(with battery). Accessories include AS-3960 helical rubber antenna,speaker/mic & nylon case/cover,nylon carry holster,dual rate automatic drop-in battery charger,2ea nicad battery packs & 1ea alkaline battery pack. The PRC-127 interred service in approx 1990.The commercial 5 watt/scanning,& UHF versions are also known to be in use. Beginning in 1995 a very similar, if not the same radio began production in Sweden by Shadow Technologies as the SFH-41 Chameleon. Two frequency hopping versions are in production by Transcrypt International as the PH-26 and PH-27 Phantoms. Original cost $910.00,NSN 5820-01-266-5964. ----------------------------------------------------------------- NASA/PRC-112? Dennis, I recently learnt that NASA used the PRC-112 for Space Shuttle communications. Do you have anything more on this? -- Jan Bury e-mail: yahya@orient.uw.edu.pl ed) I've not heard a thing about it, but I'd find it hard to believe that the PRC-112 would be in use by NASA for anything other than it's intended purpose which is not Space Shuttle communications unless it had been extensively modified(including a provision for a squelch). PRC-112(V);Handheld VHF/UHF,AM/Beacon transceiver.Adopted as a replacement for the PRC-90, it provides downed aircrew & rescue personnel with several advantages over that model.These include both VHF & UHF operation, higher output power, smaller size, & synthesized multi channel UHF operation.With these improvements it appears the PRC-112 my also be suited to fill a tactical role. Ops 121.5mc & 225-299.975mc on any of 2999 channels spaced 25kc apart.RF power output is rated 1 watt(UHF), & 100mw(VHF).Size 152mm H x 76mm W x 38mm D,0.8kg(with battery). Production started in 1980, as of 1986 US orders for radios & associated equipment exceeded 10 million dollars.Original cost $1520- $1984,NSN 5820-01-279-5450. Ref.#12,#28 PRC-112A;Unknown differance.NSN 5820-01-280-2117, original US Army & Navy cost $2060.00. Ref.#28 PRC-112B;Unknown differance.NSN 5820-02-41708752.original US Army cost $6000.00. Ref.#28 *********************************************** NEW MEMBERS; Rudolf Salomon, 1. I do agree to the conditions outlined in your document entitled "Invitation" My name is Rudolf Salomon. I am 56 years old, married, with 3 children. I live in Simi Valley, Southern California. I was born in Berlin, Germany in 1942, at the outbreak of WWII with the U.S. (I strongly suspect some of those close hits of the 500 pounders are responsible for my fascination with U.S. military radio gear) My parents and I came to the U.S. in 1951, under sponsorship of the U.S. Displaced Persons Program. I became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 1956 (Still have my green card) My interest in radio was started with the gift, from my father, of a Heathkit, genuine 6 transistor, leather covered, portable radio kit. To this day, when I smell solder flux, I am taken back to that radio kit assembly and subsequent use. After that there was no holding back, I discovered Popular Electronics magazine, short-wave listening, and I proceeded to scrounge local trash cans for cast of radios and parts. At this point I also discovered the wonderful world of military surplus electronics. At the time I lived in Los Angeles and found a dealer called Columbia Electronics, then located on Washington Blvd. Saved what money I could and on Saturdays spent many hours, in Columbia, drooling over gear like the BC-348, which I couldn't afford at the time. I remember a whole wall, stacked to the ceiling with command sets, black wrinkle and aluminium. Came away with 3 command sets to cover several bands as well as a set of headphones (50 cents). with a boom mike. powered the command sets from the power supply of a 30s vintage radio that I had scrounged from trash cans. Other treasures that I came home with include a tank transmitter (BC-604 I think) as well as a display section from a GCA radar set. All this soon gave way to the discovery of girls, marriage, raising a family and making a living and only a peripheral interest in radio things. Fast forward to 1983, children grown up, but still have 2 at home, adults now and require much less attention. Still occupied with family things but more time and begin to re-discover radio. I am an Electrical Engineer, in 1983 working at 3M in Camarillo, California where we manufactured audio tape recorders of various kinds. Much of the assembly work is outsourced to Mexico. On one trip to our vendor in Mexicali, with fellow Eng. in one of the assembly areas, they are assembling a large reel to reel recorder for Honeywell. Was told 3M designed and made this but lost subsequent contracts to Honeywell. This was the AN/TNH-25 recorder, and, according to fellow traveller, used by the NSA for recording stuff from R-390A receivers at various listening sites around the world. My friend told me, when in the Army and part of the ASA, he manned a listening post in Incerlik full of R-390A receivers and AN/TNH-25 recorders. After hearing all these stories I decided I had to have an R-390A. Found out about the R-390 newsletter published by Dallas Lankford at the time and subscribed to that. Turned out to the R-390A was not affordable for me. Ended up finding, and settling for, a very nice Steward Warner R-392, which I still have today. A nice large unit crest painted on the top of the case , an LS-166 speaker, power supply and an original Tech manual, set me back $150 at the time. Spent many pleasurable hours SWLing. and collecting QSLs, penants, trinkets and such from all around the world. Discovered the Boatanchors Mailing List several years ago and was finally was able to afford a real nice EAC R-390A from the TRW swapmeet. Have been subscribing to and realy enjoying E.R., particularely the military gear column. Am still an Electrical Eng., now at Imation, spun off from 3M, today making digital data tape cartridges. I provide technical support for our Data Drive Maintenance Group. In this capacity much of my time is spent dealing with tape testing, mechanics and much paper work. Very little electronics. I find restoring, repairing and in general working on the mil radio gear most rewarding. I am still fluent in German and freely offer translation service of German radio documentation. Am hoping to obtain, restore, operate, and learn more about the history of newer mil radio gear, ie. 60s and up. (BTW, I Realy enjoyed the write ups on PRC-XXX gear on the Mil Commo Equipment List Site) Regards, Rudolf Salomon ------------------------------------------------------------------ Brian Jeffrey VE3UU, Dennis: 1) I, hereby, accept your terms and conditions for becoming a member. 2) I have been a ham operator for over 40 years and currently hold the callsign VE3UU. Like many people, I have drifted in and out of the hobby over the years. My love has always been building and repairing more than operating and about two years ago I renewed my interest in military communications equipment. I tend to collect pre-1970 gear but that changed with the acquisition of 4 PRC-25's recently. My current military equipment line up includes: Wireless Set 19 (operating) BC-348Q (operating) R1150 (basket case) Marconi CR-100/2 receiver (pre-WW2) BC-221T frequency meter 2- ARC-5 receivers ARC-5 transmitter Complete GRC-109 set-up (operating) PRT-4 (parts unit) 2- TA312 field phones PRC-6 (should work!) 2-CPRC-26's (should work) R-390A (operating) and I use a SP600-JX-14 for band cruising. I also have a small pile of URM-25D signal generators for sale should any of the group members be interested. The price is $90 plus shipping for a working unit and $45 for a parts unit (all there except the power supply). These are a recent acquisition and I expect them to sell quickly. I have access to a small quantity of PRC-66's at $375 ea or $600 a pair, plus shipping. These are complete with handsets, battery boxes, and backpacks. If anyone is interested, have them contact me. And now a request for you. Could I get a copy of Backmail #69? Also, as I now have a small pile of PRC-25's, have you put together a Backmail of PRC-25 articles and if so can I get a copy? In no compendium is available, I really like to get the following MCGP back issues: may 31/99, June 16/99 through July 14/99. I'm looking forward to learning from and ultimately contributing to the group. Thanks. Brian Jeffrey VE3UU Carp ON, Canada K0A 1L0 e-mail: saleswizard@SalesForceTraining.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Randy Stegemeyer W7HR, Dennis: Chuck, W4MIL suggested that I contact you regarding membership in the Military Collectors Group. Thank you for the invitation to join the Military Collectors Group. I agree with and accept the conditions of group membership and look forward to participating and contributing. I am an Electronic Engineer in the Seattle area and have been a ham since 1958 (age 11). I have been active on 6 meters (WAS several times plus a number of countries), satellites (ARRL satellite WAS #2), DX (DXCC Top of Honor Roll and 5BDXCC), and am currently getting started on 1296 MHz EME and radio astronomy. My 5.2 meter dish project can be seen at http://www.SignalONE.com/antennas/ My interest in military collectables is AN/ARC-5 and SCR-274N equipment. I used some of this equipment when I was a kid first getting into ham radio. For years I didn't pay much attention to this stuff and then a year or so ago I ran into a mint T-22/ARC-5 at a hamfest. It looked just like it had just come out of the packing and I couldn't pass it up. Since then I have found a new-in-box set of T-19/ARC-5 and R-26/ARC-5, plus a number of ARC-5 items in more average condition. I have also accumulated a number of surplus conversion manuals including the Surplus Radio Conversion Manual (3 vol set), the Surplus Schematics Handbook, Command Sets, and the Surplus Conversion Handbook. Most recently I obtained an original Handbook of Maintenance Instructions for Model AN/ARC-5 Aircraft Radio Equipment, Vol. 1, of 23 Feb 1944 (AN 08-10-195). My goal is to eventually collect one piece of the entire AN/ARC-5 system, in the best condition possible. It would be a thrill for me to be able to display such a set at hamfests, fairs, etc. I would be very interested in seeing some other member profiles and finding others with similar interests. Thank you. Randy Stegemeyer, W7HR Port Orchard, WA *********************************************** HUMOR; Understanding Military R & D reports For years, I have wrestled with how to interpret what people are saying when they speak. These metrics, recently compiled, have really come in real handy in my new job. Maybe they'll help you break the code as well. John. "IT HAS LONG BEEN KNOWN"... I didn't look up the original reference. "A DEFINITE TREND IS EVIDENT"... These data are practically meaningless. "WHILE IT HAS NOT BEEN POSSIBLE TO PROVIDE DEFINITE ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS"... An unsuccessful experiment, but I still hope to get it published. "THREE OF THE SAMPLES WERE CHOSEN FOR DETAILED STUDY"... The other results didn't make any sense. "TYPICAL RESULTS ARE SHOWN"... This is the prettiest graph. "THESE RESULTS WILL BE IN A SUBSEQUENT REPORT"... I might get around to this sometime, if pushed/funded. "IN MY EXPERIENCE"... once "IN CASE AFTER CASE"... Twice "IN A SERIES OF CASES"... Thrice "IT IS BELIEVED THAT"... I think. "IT IS GENERALLY BELIEVED THAT"... A couple of others think so, too. "CORRECT WITHIN AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE"... Wrong. "ACCORDING TO STATISTICAL ANALYSIS"... Rumor has it. "A STATISTICALLY-ORIENTED PROJECTION OF THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THESE FINDINGS"... A wild guess. "A CAREFUL ANALYSIS OF OBTAINABLE DATA"... Three pages of notes were obliterated when I knocked over a glass of beer. "IT IS CLEAR THAT MUCH ADDITIONAL WORK WILL BE REQUIRED BEFORE A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF THIS PHENOMENA OCCURS"... I don't understand it. "AFTER ADDITIONAL STUDY BY MY COLLEAGUES"... They don't understand it either. "THANKS ARE DUE TO JOE BLOTZ FOR ASSISTANCE WITH THE EXPERIMENT AND TO CINDY ADAMS FOR VALUABLE DISCUSSIONS"... Mr. Blotz did the work and Ms.Adams explained to me what it meant. "A HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT AREA FOR EXPLORATORY STUDY"... A totally useless topic selected by my committee. "IT IS HOPED THAT THIS STUDY WILL STIMULATE FURTHER INVESTIGATION IN THIS FIELD"... I quit. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Millennium Bug It seems that computer programs are full of "bugs," so named because that's what many software engineers look like. And, the worst bug is the Y2K, which, if left unaddressed, could result in the following calamities: • Bill Clinton might be constitutionally eligible to run for a third term. • Chevy might bring back the Vega. • Airlines might accidentally install seats large enough for people to sit in. • Due to a crash in their phone systems, you could call a bank and wind up talking to a person instead of a recording. • The White House might start charging drug dealers the wrong rate for a night in the Lincoln Bedroom. • As the ball drops on New Year's Eve in Times Square, New York, it might get stuck, meaning Dick Clark would be on television forever. • Kenneth Starr would lose all of his data and have to start his investigation over from scratch. • Your VCR would stop blinking MIDNIGHT MIDNIGHT MIDNIGHT and start blinking NOON NOON NOON. • Tony Orlando might decide the time is right for a comeback. • If you are one of those people who have trouble adjusting to Daylight Savings Time, imagine the headaches you'll have to endure when we start the 1900's all over again! ----------------------------------------------------------------- BILL GATES BUYS A HOUSE Bill: "There are a few issues we need to discuss." Contractor: "Ah, you have our basic support option. Calls are free for the first 90 days and $75 a call there after. Okay?" Bill: "Uh, yeah... the first issue is the living room. We think it's a little smaller than we anticipated." Contractor: "Yeah. Some compromises were made to have it out by the release date." Bill: "We won't be able to fit all our furniture in there." Contractor: "Well, you have two options. You can purchase a new, larger living room; or you can use a Stacker." Bill: "Stacker?" Contractor: "Yeah, it allows you to fit twice as much furniture into the room. By stacking it, of course, you put the entertainment center on the couch... the chairs on the table... etc. You leave an empty spot, so when you want to use some furniture you can unstack what you need and then put it back when you're done." Bill: "Uh... I dunno... issue two. The second issue is the light fixtures. The bulbs we brought with us from our old home won't fit. The threads run the wrong way." Contractor: "Oh! That's easy. Those bulbs aren't plug and play. You'll have to upgrade to the new bulbs." Bill: "And the electrical outlets? The holes are round, not rectangular. How do I fix that?" Contractor: "Just uninstall and reinstall the electrical system." Bill: "You're kidding!?" Contractor: "Nope. It's the only way." Bill: " Well... I have one last problem. Sometimes, when I have guests over, someone will flush the toilet and it won't stop. The water pressure drops so low that the showers don't work." Contractor: "That's a resource leakage problem. One fixture is failing to terminate and is hogging the resources preventing access from other fixtures." Bill: "And how do I fix that?" Contractor: "Well, after each flush, you all need to exit the house, turn off the water at the street, turn it back on, reenter the house and then you can get back to work." Bill: "That's the last straw. What kind of product are you selling me?" Contractor: "Hey, nobody's making you buy it." Bill: "And when will this be fixed?" Contractor: "Oh, in your next house-which will be ready to release sometime near the end of next year. It was due out this year, but we've had some delays..." ----------------------------------------------------------------- There was an old man, a boy and a donkey. They were going to town and it was decided that the boy should ride. As they went along they passed some people who thought that it was a shame for the boy to ride and the old man to walk. The man and boy decided that maybe the critics were right so they changed positions. Later, they passed some more people who thought that it was a real shame for that man to make such a small boy walk. The two decided that maybe they both should walk. Soon they passed some more people who thought that it was stupid to walk when they had a donkey to ride. The man and the boy decided maybe the critics were right so they decided that they both should ride. They soon passed other people who thought that it was a shame to put such a load on a poor little animal. The old man and the boy decided that maybe the critics were right so they decided to carry the donkey. As they crossed a bridge they lost their grip on the animal and he fell into the river and drowned. THE MORAL OF THE STORY ..... IF YOU TRY TO PLEASE EVERYONE, YOU WILL EVENTUALLY LOSE YOUR ASS. ----------------------------------------------------------------- TWO ATTORNEYS boarded a transcontinental flight to Seattle. One sat in the window seat, the other in the middle. A few minutes before takeoff, a physician settled into the aisle seat, kicked off his shoes and wiggled his toes. The two attorneys looked at each other and rolled their eyes. Then the one in the window seat said, "I think I'll get up and get a Coke." The doctor smiled at him and said, "Oh, just sit still. It would be much easier if I got if for you." The lawyer thanked the doctor, but as soon as his benefactor ambled off in search of his Coke, he scooped up one of the doctor's shoes and spit in it. The doctor returned shortly and delivered the drink -- at which point the other attorney said, "Gee, that looks good. I think I'll have one, too." The doctor again obligingly offered to fetch refreshments. But no sooner did he stand up and set off than the second lawyer spit into his other shoe. Hours later, as the plane landed and began to taxi to the gate, the doctor slipped his feet into his shoes ... and knew immediately what must have happened. He turned to his two by-now smirking neighbors and said, "How long must this go on? This fighting between our professions? This hatred? This animosity? This spitting in shoes and pissing in Cokes?" *********************************************** The preceding was a product of the"Military Collector Group Post", an international email magazine dedicated to the preservation of history and the equipment that made it. Unlimited circulation of this material is authorized so long as the proper credits to the original authors, and publisher or this group are included. For more information concerning this group or membership contact Dennis Starks at, . A list of selected articles of interest to members can be seen at: http://www.softcom.net/users/buzz/backmail.html ***********************************************